22 replies to this topic

[Colinftw]

"As a new player, you’ll love the cooperative play and your first competitive games with equally matched new players. You’ll likely start out with a straight forward hero with a low skill cap for the first few games. We’ll provide plenty of tips to get you started and your commander for the game will help mentor and support you.

Does this mean that will be heroes more powerfull than others? Or just heroes are different because of the playstyle?

[Astro]

Probably play style. Im assuming there are different classes as well. Support/Carry/Tank etc.

I wonder if there will be like an MMR system as well.

[idyemyhairbrown]

Heroes will be balanced - there will not be inherently more powerful heroes than others. That would be poor game design.

[psychoak]

Similar games, and not so similar for that matter, have a wide variety in the complexity of their units.  Even something as simple as your standard fare RTS units have varied difficulty in their usage.  A simple melee grunt with no activated abilities will never be as much effort to effectively deploy as a multi-role caster with varied effects to choose from.

LOL has many characters that any idiot can play without really thinking about it.

Ashe for instance, very straight forward.  High skill Ashe players do insane stuff like snipe fleeing enemies from across the map, but the general effectiveness of the character is immediately picked up.  Ashe would be a low skill cap character.

Karma on the other hand is an odd beast, with more thought into timing required to be effective.  Your abilities do not have static usage, she's dependent on multiple factors for her effectiveness at any given time.  A first time player that picks up Karma is likely going to die, horribly, repeatedly.  Karma is a high skill cap character.

Bad Karma's will be absolutely destroyed by bad Ashe's.  They have a much higher learning curve, but they basically end up at the same place when both players know what they're doing.  Ashe just gets you there a hell of a lot faster.

[Arkainon]

psychoak, on 04 March 2012 - 02:03 PM, said:

Similar games, and not so similar for that matter, have a wide variety in the complexity of their units. Even something as simple as your standard fare RTS units have varied difficulty in their usage. A simple melee grunt with no activated abilities will never be as much effort to effectively deploy as a multi-role caster with varied effects to choose from. LOL has many characters that any idiot can play without really thinking about it. Ashe for instance, very straight forward. High skill Ashe players do insane stuff like snipe fleeing enemies from across the map, but the general effectiveness of the character is immediately picked up. Ashe would be a low skill cap character. Karma on the other hand is an odd beast, with more thought into timing required to be effective. Your abilities do not have static usage, she's dependent on multiple factors for her effectiveness at any given time. A first time player that picks up Karma is likely going to die, horribly, repeatedly. Karma is a high skill cap character. Bad Karma's will be absolutely destroyed by bad Ashe's. They have a much higher learning curve, but they basically end up at the same place when both players know what they're doing. Ashe just gets you there a hell of a lot faster.

Very well stated. I was curious to that myself.
I wondered if on the game's release, you would automatically start out as a hero playing against an AI tutorial, and then move on to being a commander, then once the tutorial is finished, you chose which you wanted to be.

[Thanatological]

Because people like me learn best by doing stuff on our own.  I often get stuck on tutorials in many games, just because how they try too have me do something is a very infringement upon my play style. I simply won't do it, its wasteful nonproductive and outright kills my learning curve. Starting into a bad habit is never good.

[Jeru_Sorrin]

one thing I hope that they have for heroes is.  Have it so that you can see all the stats you have in-game unlike LOL that only does major stats and leaves out lifesteal and crit. Also i'm curious to see what cultural influence they'll allow to be more prevalent. LOL has many different cultural infleuences but doesn't have a sense of story. I also can't wait to see thier leveling system both in-game and out.

Edited by Jeru_Sorrin, 05 March 2012 - 04:00 PM.

[CraigFraser]

Those familiar with traditional RTS games will feel right at home as commander from their first game. The game strategy and team dynamics can become complex at an advanced skill level, but the learning curve to get into the game as the commander or a less complex hero is very low. (posting from San Fran ..a short distance from the GDC location)

[Milkshaker]

Will the commander be able to suggest (or mark) favoured heroes (s)he would like in their team? because that way he can create strategies that fit his playstyle by suggesting heroes

[CraigFraser]

We don't have that at the moment, but it is an interesting idea. The chat may be sufficient to cover that role.

[Thanatological]

If there is any reward I think it is not an idea worth adding. Each person may not have heroes unlocked, or may not even known how too play those heroes well. It would be unfair system.

[IanD967]

Which brings up another question:
Are all the heroes going to be unlocked upon release then you have to buy the rest after that point or will you be having a rotation each week so that people can still play if they don't want to unlock any?

[Thanatological]

Well I recall it being said somewhere...They might be doing a free set, and rotation every week like LoL. I like the system its simple and keeps people trying new things and prevents the same four heroes from being overly common. Honestly the concern I have with it at this point is if we start with 25(?) heroes, what is the rate we get new heroes compared too the change of the free heroes and how many we can select from. I don't want too hit the same list a few weeks from when I start. If new heroes come out and fills out the list over time, then I think it will be fine. However, played LoL for so long that the list just started looking the same. Either all overplayed old heroes or new heroes that I don't play.

Edited by Thanatological, 11 March 2012 - 03:35 AM.

[IanD967]

I hope they keep it with about 5-6 heroes and 1 or 2 commanders.

Should be plenty of variety atleast untill they release a few more after a few months

I wonder if they already have alot of heroes/commanders ready for a timed release even before the game has launched so that it would give them alot more time to create more while having 10-20 in reserves being released every 2-3 weeks.

[psychoak]

Eh, they should be out day 1.

How much versatility is in the game at release will be a significant part of how well it does.  If it leaves beta with half a dozen, it will be instantly trashed by a few million moba players and take forever to build it's base up even if it's twice the game.

Large initial stockpile and steady drip of new content is the way to go.

[Milkshaker]

This is only semi-related, but I am wondering how the balance of power will be between the commander and individual heroes.. How many units does the commander need to build to be a threat to a hero?  etc.

Also, will heroes be supercarries like in DOTA, or will they be kept in check a bit more (like LoL mostly)?

I hope its the latter (no supercarries), especially with the RTS elements in the game, I feel that it is more fitting What do you guys think?

[psychoak]

It should depend on the RTS pacing.  They have to fit the overall flow or the commander will either be the overwhelming factor, or irrelevant.  Too much power in the individual, and the army is decoration.  Too little power in the individual, and the commander is the determining force.  Particularly problematic if focus fire is in the picture.

[Milkshaker]

psychoak, on 12 March 2012 - 03:15 AM, said:

It should depend on the RTS pacing.  They have to fit the overall flow or the commander will either be the overwhelming factor, or irrelevant.  Too much power in the individual, and the army is decoration.  Too little power in the individual, and the commander is the determining force.  Particularly problematic if focus fire is in the picture.

Good points, although I am sure that they are aware of this as well. I'm not talking about hero/commander balance though, but hero/hero balance. In DOTA carries will steamroll once they get the items they need (in my experience), and are sometimes impossible to stop. In LoL, you can still stop carries (except maybe 1 or 2). Hopefully the hero-game will be more LoL like than DOTA like in that regard

[GhostHamburger]

Let's start the beta already!!! I am dieing to start playing.

I really hope there is a character like Heimerdinger from LOL. I love playing that style of champ. I know there is a similar champ in DOTA 2, a green worm, that lays down little turrets that fire at the creeps and enemies. If there was a similar playing champ in SODA, I would be a devoted player forever.

[Thanatological]

Those heroes might be the most useless due too a much more mobile game and more things too defend. Until the beta mouths from now we won't know.