54 replies to this topic

[TheUnsungWar]

My question stems for the slightest understanding that the commander can play the role of a major game changer, and if a solid, heavily experienced RTS player takes the role of the commander, could the other team already be doomed from the start?

What do you think?

[WeReWalRuS]

This is an interesting point, and I was thinking this myself when I was wondering what would happen if top level Starcraft players jumped ship to this game.

First, its hard to make a conclusion until we get a better understanding of the limitations within the Commander role.

Secondly, I wonder how much of a handicap it would be to a good Commander when he/she has to deal with recalcitrant champion. RTS players are used to units doing what they want, and when they want it done. Champions, with their attached units, have minds of their own.

Finally, I think that the disparity between a pre-made team and a group of single queue players will be greater in this game....than lets say Dota or LoL.

What I definitely do know is that I can't wait to find out when it comes to the beta, hopefully from firsthand experience. *crosses fingers*

My vote: the team with the best synergy, but that's just stating the obvious i guess.

Edited by WeReWalRuS, 16 April 2012 - 08:11 PM.

[Astro]

I trolled...sing it with me everyone


ye-ye-ye-ye-ye....oh hohohohohoho...nun nun nun

[WeReWalRuS]

lol...thx for sharing.

[TheUnsungWar]

Oh how I want to report that guy but I purposely set myself up for that... for a reason ... :3

Yea I know it is quite early to ask this but I was really hoping to get a slight whimper from a developer.

And yes I totally agree with you.

The team with the best synergy will win.
Synergy- the interaction of elements that when combined produce a total effect that is greater than the sum of the individual elements, contributions, achievements, etc.

[Milkshaker]

It's kind of hard to say before we know exactly what the commanders are capable of. In general, I would imagine that RTS experience will help with the concepts of resource denial and map control (which exist in MOBA too, but are applied in a different way).

I can see the commanders' importance increase immensely the longer the game progresses, as the commander will probably be able to build more (stronger) units faster, and the heroes might cap out if there is a level cap. This for me is the natural progression of the game, as heroes will be stronger early game (the commander will have almost no forces at the start of the game.
Not saying that heroes will be useless late game (speculation ofc!), but I see eco based commanders help their heroes exploit the early game advantage heroes have, and fighty commanders as a doomsday machine who get protected by the heroes unti they go full deathstar mode on the enemy.

but then again, im just speculating

[Sayan]

I will answer this question when i play the beta, until then no comment...

[Zid]

Things like laning and so forth for MOBA won't be applicable here as much as other DotA games, so I think the scale might slightly tip in favor of experienced RTS players.

But I believe knowledge of both genres is better than just one.

[IanD967]

I think it's pretty obivous!

Commander - anyone who prefers RTS games would have an advantage of this role
Hero - anyone who prefers DOTA games

Though if you have a bunch of friends who play both games then it will depend on how well you can work together and wheither or not you get out-played.

[OwnageDaPwnage]

I only worry about ending up with a commander who just trolls all game and doesnt care

[TheUnsungWar]

OwnageDaPwnage, on 17 April 2012 - 10:58 AM, said:

I only worry about ending up with a commander who just trolls all game and doesnt care

^This.

Interestingly enough, it seems seasoned vets of other games are coming over to this one, so I am hoping none of them will be trolling.. But keep an eye out for Astro, as he has pointed himself out. LOL. Good fun.

[IanD967]

He only did that because you put the option in ;p if you didn't want a reply like that then you shoulden't have put in the option.

I think griefers will no doubt come to this game but im hoping Ironclad put in some system to deal with them be it remove from the game or otherwise.

[Ekko_Tek]

Personally I think RTS players will have the advantage as they will have experience in both macro and micro - controlling hero units (WC3 and DoWII  and Sins itself for example) as well as controlling more macro/economy elements. I've played both types and RTS are more demanding in terms of apm and map awareness. Being a team game though, obviously having a pre-made, coordinated team with a plan will be the best advantage of all...

[TheUnsungWar]

@Ekko_Tek

That's what I was thinking and the reason for this post.  The advantage will not be huge but there will be one, but that is my opinion.  As you have also said the obvious ultimate force in this game is a team with synergy.

@IanD967

Lighten up buddy.  I knew I put that in there and that others would do it.   I just wanted to see who would. That's all.  It is all in good fun.

[Vatticson]

One of the hardest things maybe will be the proper units-per-hero the commander must give.

I think the RTS commander, if he´s good, he will make a LOT of minions with 250 apm and screw the enemy entirely! >: D or not (because enemy heroes would crush them easily, so your heroes need to withstand them).

[IanD967]

250 apm?

and I think there may be a limit as to how many can be assigned champions maybe between 20-30 max?
I cannot possibly imagine seeing a single champion walking around with 100+ units assigned to him.

[Jeru_Sorrin]

Good point Ian, after all we actually want the commander to have a role in the statedgy. However I would like to lessen that number down a bit more. Say 7 large units (calvary, engines) and 14 small units (infantry, archers, surports). This way there will be less of a "swarm" effect for both sides to take advantage of.

Although maybe they could make escort size faction specific so they can make a "swarm" faction and other faction can have it as a penalty. Also I think to be really good at this game a player needs to understand both sides of the equation to really succeed. Becuase if a player doesn't understand how both roles work, he/she will become frustrated at the other role for not doing something when they're doing something else. This frustration, of course, leads to less thinking and to more mistakes.

[Martiniondarocs]

I agree with you saying how you need to know how both sides work. This is why majority in the poll says how people who understand both rts and online battle arenas will be most successful in this game.

[lehos]

I honestly hope this game turns into a mix between Warhammer 40k Dawn of War II system and DotA, cause thats what Im getting from all the videos and explanations from the devs. If thats true Im sure a mix of players will pick it up pretty quickly.

Edited by lehos, 10 May 2012 - 07:37 PM.

[Ekko_Tek]

It's funny you say that because when watching the IGN video, the fairy hero's ultimate power (levitating enemies in an aoe around her and then throwing them) is identical to one of the Farseer's abilities in Dawn of War II. Besides, that specific example, I agree you get flashbacks of various other games RTS and MOBA that are melding together nicely in this.