20 replies to this topic

[Ekko_Tek]

What will win games in SoaDA?
So we don't know the answers yet but we can speculate based on what we've seen of the game and what we know of RTS and MOBA games (and maybe some devs will be inspired to drop some hints )
My question is really asking - what will the objectives be to succeed, what things will be used to shift battles in your favour, what tactics will be used?
Where will skill have the most impact and what will the learning curve and skill ceiling be like compared to other games?

For example, winning games in Sins of a Solar Empire could be summarized as expanding your empire, growing your economy, building the right fleet composition to counter your nearest opponent(s),researching the right upgrades, and doing all of this faster than your opponent(s).

Winning games in Dawn of War II could be summarized as capping the map and building generators (aka growing your economy), building the right troops to counter the enemy, getting the right gear for your hero, using the environment (cover, buildings, etc.) wisely, harrassing enemy economy points, teching faster, losing less troops, and using combinations of abilities and good unit positioning to win battles.

Winning in MOBA games (much less experience for me here so maybe others could chime in - just have DemiGod as a reference point) comes down to farming creeps to level your hero, buying the right gear, coordinating with your team, and slowly pushing the enemy team back by sniping/ganking heros and upgrading your defenses.

So - given all that - how what do you think SoaDA will incorporate of all this?
We know generally it will involve heros and wargear and abilities, commander global abilities, economic expansion and map control.
I am wondering how  important unit/troop counters will be - soft counters? hard counters?
How harrassable will the enemy economy be? What will it be based on? Map points? map sectors?
Will hero micro and ability/gear usage have as big or bigger impact than commander globals and "creep" units?
Will the skill ceiling be much lower than the average RTS as multiple people will be controlling what is generally controlled by one person in an RTS? How much will good micro affect the outcome of battles? This depends largely on how many abilities will be available and is part of the next question.
How much will the physical map environment have an influence on battles? cover? hills? terrain advantages?
How much time will battles take? some games have units/heros that can be lost in the blink of an eye and others take time for a longer shoot out/slugfest - since they've said 20-40 minute games, I'd guess probably on the shorter side.
So more questions than answers obviously but I'm curious what you all think based on what you've seen and read so far...

[OwnageDaPwnage]

I think its probably a combination of strategy, farming, and counters. It will probably come down to who plays smarter because that will lead to less mistakes and more gold. Although I do bet their will be different strategies, counters, and luck involved also.

Edited by OwnageDaPwnage, 20 April 2012 - 12:29 PM.

[Jeru_Sorrin]

So far what we have seen is that the maps are somwhat simlar to what Starcaft 2 does. The mini Map here in this video at 0:58 is comprosied of black unknow areas and bright white spots, i'm assuming that those are gold lines that a player can expand his/her base to. However there will be chokepoints that a player can use as one see's in the video that will be stratedgically important to seize. Also it will be important for a hero to farm creeps to help the general economy.

Beyond that have no idea.

[Ekko_Tek]

Has there been any confirmation of base building by commanders? I've read most of the previews but some were from a while ago and I don't remember all the confirmed details vs. hinted ones. All I remember the commander does so far is issue orders (suggestions really) to the heros on where to go/what to do, use commander global abilities, build creeps, and somehow grow the economy. Doesn't seem like a lot to do really as global abilities will be on a cool-down I'd imagine and not used frequently so I wonder if building structures and upgrading/researching will be part of it? I wonder if structures (like defense towers) can be placed in the field at all...

[WeReWalRuS]

I recall hearing/reading something about the capability of creating defense structures, thus alleviating the game from having MOBA style maps.

I also believe the preview vids show something about upgrading the base, but I need to double check on that.

[FleurDeMur]

I saw one of the brothers Fraser (forget which was doing the interview) place a building down adjacent to his main "citadel" in one of the vids. I would assume that the commander, other than global powers and not controlling his heroes, plays exactly like he's playing WC3.

[IanD967]

OwnageDaPwnage, on 20 April 2012 - 12:28 PM, said:

I think its probably a combination of strategy, farming, and counters. It will probably come down to who plays smarter because that will lead to less mistakes and more gold. Although I do bet their will be different strategies, counters, and luck involved also.

This.

It wont be a singular reason as to what will win a game but combination of the above plus teamwork and luck.

[tech953]

Man this game looks like it will be fun, but what makes it different from games like league of legends?
Just asking

[Zid]

It wouldn't be a mainstream RTS experience without any base building and upgrade researching. And that's who Ironclad is trying to appeal with this game.

Also, I figure a good commander wouldn't let the enemy team farm his creep for rewards that easily.

Heroes would be more like tideturning units, imo. Like Command & Conquer 3: Tiberium Wars' ultimate units. Can only have a handful, long to respawn (at least, longer than it takes to make an improvised group of regular units), but can make or break a battle.

Edited by Zid, 20 April 2012 - 04:31 PM.

[OwnageDaPwnage]

Yeah that sounds about right to me.

[karsh]

would it be similar to destroying their base, or more akin to deathmatch, or a combination of a lil bit of everything?

[Jeru_Sorrin]

Oh I see you mean what are actual victory condition. That's what you're saying karsh. Actually I think it's like in a RTS game where if a commander loses all of his units or all of his buildings and can't make any more within a certain timeframe.

[Shingston]

Communication between the base commander and the hero players.
Team with the less coordination loses.

[CWheezy]

In most RTS and Moba games, farming/econ wins.

So unless it is some crazytown madness, the same thing will win games here. Whatever team has the best econ, the most gold, the most xp, will win

[IanD967]

CWheezy, on 26 April 2012 - 08:12 PM, said:

In most RTS and Moba games, farming/econ wins.

So unless it is some crazytown madness, the same thing will win games here. Whatever team has the best econ, the most gold, the most xp, will win

Ahh but to get that gold and XP you need to win fights and winning fights not only requires teamwork but alot of communication

[CWheezy]

No, killing creeps gains you gold and xp faster than killing heroes, with less risk

[IanD967]

Well without knowing how much XP and gold (if we get gold) we get for killing Heroes I can only base it on other MOBA's I have played where you get more XP and gold for killing an enemy hero plus the added bonus of denying him both while he is dead

[Ekko_Tek]

It also comes down to how much (or if at all) you can harass the enemy economy. In RTS games, sure econ wins games but the one who invests in a better army will have more field presence to destroy the enemy economy before any advantages can be reaped. So it could just be killing enemy heroes, or it could be attacking supply lines, destroying gold mines, etc. I'm not really sure on how the commander generates gold at this point. Is the gold the only resource we know of for sure?

[Jeru_Sorrin]

Gold for sure, I think there's one called crystal. Not sure. However everyone's right when they say getting a better econ will prove instumental but from what I understand to have a good econ is not just good commander build time or gold gathering. It's all about a synenergy between the commander's gold gathering skills, hero creep killing, and map control. Why? Because ALL Gold is SHARED!
So when the commander mines gold he is sharing with the heroes. Everytime the heroes kill a creep or minion the commander gets a share. Then there's the caravan that is a neutral creep that will have a ton of gold that randomly shows up on the map. All of this means to secure the econ there must be scouting and counter-scouting to grab as much gold as possible.

All in all this game is going to be tense, and hopefully, fun.

[karsh]

During a video of a gamespot interview, i saw a building, that i assume is the main keep, and logically this is where the commander would be. I see the strategy and tactics behind the gold and supply lines, but would it be logical to assume/think that the destruction of the main keep, which houses the commander (possibly), would result in victory or loss?