25 replies to this topic

[MonsterMetroid]

I apologize in advance if this has been answered in the forums before, But my question is do we know who would carry a team to victory in those games that last much longer than usual. In most games right now it is always the ad carry, but in this game will the heroes or the commander have the better end game growth?

I really could see it either way i suppose. But i think i would prefer heroes to be more important endgame, simply because i would hate for my tank to start getting melted by minions

Thoughts?

[WeReWalRuS]

That's a good ?

I'm hoping for pretty much the same thing. Given the fact that 4/5 of the team is represented by hero's, it would be reasonable for them to be the deciding factor. Granted, the Commander should control the general flow of the game, but good hero play should be the reason why battles are won or lost in consideration of player input IMO. That said, a poor commander should also be a significant handicap as well.

I just want more footage, when oh when will it be leaked?! Maybe then these questions could be answered

Oh yeah....welcome to the forum btw!

Edited by WeReWalRuS, 29 April 2012 - 05:51 PM.

[Sayan]

Hold on a second, LOL has both an AD carry and AP carry, they both can carry their respective teams and they both can change the course of a game in their own ways, why are we expecting similar meta-game compositions in this game? Ideally I would like there to be a choice of carries in this game as well, probably a caster similar to LOL who is magic based who can scale well into late game with the appropriate items and an Attack Damage carry obviously, now if they somehow introduced another form of carry based archetype that can be the game changer if played appropriately then that would be awesome...

[IanD967]

Welcome to the forums!

I think there shoulden't be an "end game carry" but the games should be won by a collective effort with the Commander and the Heroes instead of just the Heroes or just the commander.

I do agree with Sayan though and that we shoulden't expect the same sort-of meta game from MOBA's such as LoL
(Reffering to the "why are we expecting similar meta-game compositions in this game?" )

Edited by IanD967, 30 April 2012 - 12:47 PM.

[CWheezy]

IanD967, on 30 April 2012 - 12:46 PM, said:

I think there shoulden't be an "end game carry" but the games should be won by a collective effort with the Commander and the Heroes instead of just the Heroes or just the commander.

What about getting an end game carry farmed isn't a collective effort of the team?

[MonsterMetroid]

I really like what sayan said about the meta-game. i guess im just trying to relate to what i know. I guess the root of my question though is basically anyone that has played a moba or rts has been in that game that just seems like will never end. It goes over an hour. In those games in starcraft you usually have maxed out your unit count or in lol you have finished your build. you are at your best per se.

In that situation I think it would be ideal for your damage heroes, and for your commanders to be just as effective as one another like Ian was saying but due to the large number of heroes and commanders we know that wont always be the case. So which would you prefer a commander that is able to steamroll the opposing heroes just like they were normal units or Heroes that can ignore opposing armies that dont have hero support?

[ePh-YeW-sEa-KaE]

I feel like it would be a collective effort from both the heroes and the commander.  Obviously, as in LoL, there can be a hero that does everything to carry a team and I'm certain that will be similar in this game.  I doubt the commander will have a direct tie to carrying the team but I'm sure the minion upgrades, and above all else, the commander abilities like that BA dragon we've seen could end the game.  If a 4v4 turns to a 0v0 and the battlefield is clear of players, the commanders will (and should) be the deciding factor.  They are after all the commanders.  

Other than the commander abilities (whatever the super term is) I don't think a commander will have the power to take out four heroes.  That would make every game go far too long.  I'm sure they'll aim for the same time frame as LoL.  30-45 mins or so.  

I guess my answer is the ad carry will be taking care of business.  

And if not, this Ninja will.  

[Sayan]

I hope the commander super units aren't like extremely hard to kill like Roshan/Baron/Kongor; hopefully they are like the last tech unit and needs to be upgraded in the long term...

I wouldn't like to get wiped out and which ever commander gets to tech faster into the final super unit gets to wipe us out; I guess we will see when the Beta gets out...

[murdeoc]

i think the commanders role will be the smallest in those overlong games. i started another topic a while ago about limited resources in that we discussed what will happen when the resources run out in those overlong games. i really expect the amount of resources on the map to be scaled towards games of 20-40 minutes as ironclad stated this to be the expected length of games. they will probably make sure there will be a bit more resources so a game CAN take longer, but if it takes too long i think the commander will be hard pushed to make money and the heroes need to make kills for the primary income. offcourse by this time the commander should have acces to most if not all of his abilities and he will influence the game with those, but i believe the heroes will become more important in those games because of this.

[IanD967]

CWheezy, on 30 April 2012 - 01:51 PM, said:

What about getting an end game carry farmed isn't a collective effort of the team?

Well not really no because, i can only use LoL as an example, if your team has been pushed back to your base with one of the lane towers remaining and your AD carry is still trying to farm then there is a very high chance they would keep getting ganked getting that farm unless your team was there to protect or help them which stops them from putting pressure on the other team.

murdeoc, on 01 May 2012 - 04:56 AM, said:

but if it takes too long i think the commander will be hard pushed to make money and the heroes need to make kills for the primary income. offcourse by this time the commander should have acces to most if not all of his abilities and he will influence the game with those, but i believe the heroes will become more important in those games because of this.

He should have access but that doesn't mean he would be able to use them. That other resource (Crystal) would be used for abilities and I have no idea if there will be a large amount of deposits (like gold mines) or if it regens after a certain time.

[CWheezy]

So in your example the team is doing their job of holding out while the carry farms and the carry is doing the carry job of farming so that the team can win.

I am still confused as to how it is not a collective effort. If there was no team defending, the carry would lose, and if there was no carry to protect, the other 4 would lose. Everyone has a lot of value to the team, and every action affects whether you win or lose.

[5th_Horseman]

I would imagine that the commander would have about as much importance as the 4 heroes put together. But back to what you were saying about your tank getting melted by minions: I doubt that minions/troops would be able to be upgraded infinitely, so like in any strategy game, they can only get so strong. I believe that the same will be true with the heroes, like a level cap or a certain number of items that can be equipped at any given time.

Regarding "late game carries", im sure that there will be some, but there will be a large variety heroes. Then again, in any DOTA-like game, late game carries can't win the game by themselves, and to carry late game, they will have had to perform at least decently early-mid game. Like any hero, they will have advantages and disadvantages.

[TheRyzen]

i think the commanders should have a huge impact on the game but the game can only be truely won by the heroes, like in LoL a good support player will have a huge impact on the game but they cant carry on their own.

[Kuggen]

I hope if a team chooses to focus on getting one player super farmed then that player can carry the team to victory in one way or another regardless of their role. An AD hero or an army commander by steamrolling the enemies. A support hero or support commander by supercharging the teammates.

[noah123495]

I think that the commanders unites will start to lose importance as the game progresses, but maybe the commander will have the ability to either invest more in himself or his heroes, thus changing who is the bigger carry late game.

[murdeoc]

i agree noah and welcome to the forums!

[IanD967]

Well if that is how the gameplay works it will certainly be interesting!
I guess it depends who is doing better: the Commander or the Heroes.
Obivously if the heroes are doing well then it may be the smarter option of giving them more support and gold to keep up their power above the enemies heroes while keeping their commander too busy to help them somehow

[littlegremlin]

I think the answer is
IRELIA

[ThinkTank]

This is a good debate, I do agree heroes should be the deciding factor... however REALLY GOOD commander play in a support fashion or in a macro fashion should maybe not directly sway offensive battle... but provide the foundation for hero dominance.

Good topic!

[Shadoirst]

I think there should not be overly powered "carrys", make it so the team becomes a overall force that cant be stopped not just 1 player who can kill a whole team(like League), lets make this game better than those games where you can be the best and the rest of the players sit at there keyboard twidling their thumds