29 replies to this topic

[idyemyhairbrown]

When I first heard about this game, I initially thought the Commander was responsible for building and deciding what 'lanes' and 'goals' to push, but that the units, once produced, would be mostly AI controlled and spawn at 30 second intervals, to follow whatever route the Commander thought best. I figured that the Commander would perhaps be able to control certain units in battle (casting spells, etc), but that the movement and spawning intervals of the units would be a constant. This is keeping true to the current DOTA/LoL/MOBA feel while adding an element of player-control and autonomy.

However, after reading more about this game, I'm beginning to think that units will not be spawning in intervals and following predetermined lanes, but rather that the Commander will take control of the entire army and move it about as one entity (as is generally the case in RTS games).

What are your thoughts on how the Commander will playout?

[DeadDove]

Exactly how much of the game is RTS and how much is MOBA, and how much control the Commander has isn't clear yet. I think it should be a bit of a mix between minions spawned in intervals and units the Commander can take control of. So you might have a bare minimum of minions heading up each lane, but you can control other units to go wherever you want. We know that the Commander can give orders to Heroes, but the Heroes aren't really obligated to obey.

[Sarudak]

Well we haven't really seen anything yet to say the the maps even have lanes in the traditional sense. OTOH from some of the comments I have gathered that the commander will have full control over at least some of their minions. The only thing I worry about is that there will be things for heroes to do at all stages of the game.

[idyemyhairbrown]

Yeah. In regards to the commands, I presume the Commander has a global line of sight over all his units whereas the heroes will have more limited information visa vie their own periphery. I like your suggestion above, but I would (personally) opt for more MOBA style gameplay. If anyone has played Castle Wars in WC3, or similar type custom maps, that is what I am thinking. Choice in units to be produced, the quantity of the units, the directions of the units, etc. and perhaps more micromanagement in terms of casting spells in battle etc.

[Sarudak]

I think heroes should have full global sight available to all friendly units. Otherwise it would be too hard for them to coordinate with the commander or understand why he's giving them orders.

[idyemyhairbrown]

Sarudak, on 23 February 2012 - 11:27 AM, said:

I think heroes should have full global sight available to all friendly units. Otherwise it would be too hard for them to coordinate with the commander or understand why he's giving them orders.

Well I think that's part of the idea behind the teamwork and strategy. As the develoeprs have mentioned, the Commander will have information unavailable to the heroes and will be able to issue orders to them corresponding to this information. I presumed this had to do with sight.

[Sarudak]

Oh. Where did they say that? I didn't see anything about that.

[idyemyhairbrown]

I think in the Gamespot interview with Blair Fraser.

[Sarudak]

I still have yet to watch that thing.

[DeadDove]

idyemyhairbrown, on 23 February 2012 - 11:35 AM, said:

Well I think that's part of the idea behind the teamwork and strategy. As the develoeprs have mentioned, the Commander will have information unavailable to the heroes and will be able to issue orders to them corresponding to this information. I presumed this had to do with sight.

I don't remember reading anything like that. Could you dig around to find where they said that?

[idyemyhairbrown]

3:10 in the interview with Blair. He says "the commander will have information that is valuable to the hero and the hero will have skills that are valuable to the commander" - more or less. I took that to its logical conclusion that the hero is not privy to that information.

[Sarudak]

That's possible. It's also possible that the heros are just going to be so neck deep in the micro managing of their hero they don't have the time to look at the big picture. Also the commander would know stuff that the heroes wouldn't unrelated to LoS like what the overall strategy is, what resources are needed to accomplish goals, what units/buildings/research are in progress or planned. The commander might know that he needs crystals to get uber unit 4 and then transmit that info to the heroes so they can work to secure a certain map point.

[idyemyhairbrown]

Yep, very true. LoS as a distinguishing feature of the Commander role might not be a mechanic. We'll have to wait and see.

[Sarudak]

I know I would really dislike it if I didn't have full LoS. Think of how hard it would be to make any meaningful decisions as a hero if you couldn't see what was going on. I would feel blind and ineffective. What if the commander was busy doing something else and didn't have time to order me where to go? I would have absolutely no idea what to do. It's one thing to allow the commander to communicate what he needs to the heroes through commands. It's something else entirely to make the hero unable to operate independently.

[idyemyhairbrown]

Point taken, and I agree. Aside from LoS, would you rather the Commander more in line with RTS mechanics or MOBA mechanics?

[StLion]

I would like to have the commander take care of the ressources and types of creeps on the lane ... perhaps something like the special powers in the spirit of the hero line defence? (mana nuke etc)

[Sarudak]

idyemyhairbrown, on 23 February 2012 - 01:45 PM, said:

Point taken, and I agree. Aside from LoS, would you rather the Commander more in line with RTS mechanics or MOBA mechanics?

Well my first response is as much RTS as is reasonable. The key though is to make sure that everyone feels engaged at all points in the game. If you allow a commander the full spectrum of RTS options and he decides to go for an economic booming strategy what are the heroes going to do? I think they need to give reason for early skirmishing regardless of the strategy you're pursuing. A good way they could do this is having resources spread out enough that they are difficult to defend and having valuable location based resources.

[DeadDove]

idyemyhairbrown, on 23 February 2012 - 01:45 PM, said:

Point taken, and I agree. Aside from LoS, would you rather the Commander more in line with RTS mechanics or MOBA mechanics?

I think the general rule-of-thumb they're going for is that the Commander plays very much like an RTS game, and the Heroes play more like a MOBA, and I think that's a great way to do it.

[Thanatological]

I think its the map is going to be in a MOBA style layout, with a basic points along a few paths, with various paths inbetween them where heroes will fight for control of these points as the commander builds too support them and maintain control of the map.  A full blown RTS game might be a bit over the top, but there has to be some method of mangement and effect on the flow of the battle more then just building and hording minions. Maybe some sort of automated minion spawns too attack their base with command controled minions, that allow him too build protect or capture zones.

Now this is assumed because I assume we will have levels or something, because otherwise why build minions? You could starve the other team of XP. If we don't have an level system it might follow more along the lines of Nautral Selection or Nuclear Dawn. Where the commander upgrades the players.

[Sarudak]

We haven't had any indication what the maps are going to look like yet...